On Tuesday May 7, after a peaceful rally on the front lawn of the city hall in Kingston, pro-ceasefire protestors packed the benches at the meeting of the Kingston Common Council to deliver speeches during the public-comment period. Made aware of the planned rally ahead of time, some members of the council communicated apprehensions in an email exchange with council president Andrea Shaut ahead of the meeting, enquiring about a possible police escort into the building upon their arrival.
The anxiety may have been overblown, The rally resembled a potluck in the park, with food served and attendees enjoying the warm weather. They held up signs, took pictures and listened to the occasional speech.
Just before the council meeting Shaut, along with alders Michael Tierney and Michele Hirsch, mingled with the crowd and engaged in light conversation. A Kingston police vehicle was parked in the Kingston High School driveway across Broadway.
When the meeting began, police chief Egidio Tinti and two other officers were in attendance. An officer or two is typically present at such council meetings in the main room of the council chamber.
Hudson Valley One spoke with Chief Tinti the following day. The interview has been lightly edited for content.
HV1: The KPD hasn’t arrested a single protestor on any side since the conflict in Israel began
Chief Tinti: That is correct. A lot of that is determined by the actions of the individuals.
We’re there to provide a safe space for them to get their message out, whatever message that might be, and I’ve said this before to my officers- that we listen. Agree or disagree with what they’re saying, we still have to protect their right to speech. And as long as it’s orderly and lawful, we’re good.
I’ve been fortunate, I’ve never seen where it’s an issue. Usually the problems come in where there’s protesters and counterprotesters. That’s where the issues usually occur. We haven’t had, you know, rocks thrown through the windows or people lighting things on fire. I mentioned to my officers yesterday before the meeting, ‘They just want to be heard. We have an obligation to protect their ability to be heard. That’s what we’re there for.’ ”
How the council meeting went
Even last night there were individuals that, you know, clearly had anger towards the police, but they can say what they want. They can look at me while they’re saying it. I’ll be there to protect their ability to say it. And I don’t agree with [what they are saying] clearly, but from my perspective, ‘I don’t agree with you, brother’, but you know, that’s what makes this country great.
What informs the decision to break a protest up
Usually that’s made by a higher ranking supervisor, a sergeant or lieutenant. In some cases they’ll reach out to me but again, a lot of it is looking at what the crowd is doing. Technically if they’re impeding traffic they should be getting a permit. If they stay on the sidewalk it’s a different story.
In some cases, if there’s a larger crowd than anticipated, which I think is the case in some of these, it spills over and at that point we have
an onsite decision to make whether or not we push back. Some of it’s dictated by the number of officers we have and the type of crowd we’re dealing with.”
What’s the difference between what happened at New Paltz and what’s been happening in Kingston?
Admittedly, I don’t know all of it. From what I can put together, the New Paltz college has contracts or is in some sort of an agreement with companies that support or don’t support what they’re doing with the Palestine ceasefire.
And, you know, that is not the case in Kingston. You know, they’re here to speak to the elected officials in an effort to gain their support for their cause. Again, a lot of it can change. If there is a large protest group and a large counterprotest group, then you have the back and forth between them. And although we allow the free speech when tensions build to that level, that’s where the police officers need to concern themselves that someone could then do something they’re not supposed to, an act of violence in some capacity.
What must the pressures have been like for the state troopers at SUNY New Paltz?
Well, I think a lot of it is we’re just following orders. I know that that’s a volatile use of words. It’s volatile. I get that. I understand. But at the end of the day, police departments, state police, sheriff’s office, we are essentially entrusted to use force. And in some cases, physical force, to do what the elected officials are asking us to do.
So these decisions, whatever level they’re being made on, are then funneled down. And then we’re tasked with how to carry them out. When it comes to whether state police are ordered in, and I don’t know how their chain of command works, but if it’s similar to us, you know, usually those decisions are discussed. And then it’s, you know, what’s the reason? What are the resources? And then how do we implement it without making sure that no one gets hurt on both sides, both the law-enforcement response and then the protesters themselves.
How far is too far?
I can’t speak about other agencies, but yesterday the officers that were assigned [to the common council meeting], we consider to be level-headed officers that have been here quite a few years. They understand the system, there’s open dialogue.
I say they’re easygoing, that’s the term I would use, and I think a lot of that is, it comes from the top, right? My attitude is, listen, we’ve met, we’ve talked, they’re here, we’ll let them get their message out. And again, when the guy stands up and says, F… the police, and he’s got the big thing going on, he’s looking at me, he’s flipping me off. And I go, well, I disagree, but have at it. Understand that where it changes in many cases, if he comes over and starts shoving me down the stairs, you know, that is a different story. And it changes everything. It’s not just rhetoric at that point.
The George Floyd protests
During the height of the George Floyd protest times, we met with all the organizers, and they assured us it would remain peaceful. We had resources in waiting on the law-enforcement side in case something were to go bad because there maybe 5000 people that are there to protest peacefully.
But if one or two show up with the intent to throw a brick through a window and cause havoc for the mere sake of havoc, and not for really supporting the cause that they’re there to do, we have to train officers in that regard, too. Hey, listen, you know, there’s 5000 people, that guy threw the brick, that’s the guy we’re after. Don’t start pushing and shoving 4999 other people out of the way when it’s that individual that’s causing the problem.
The irony of it all
I saw a picture somewhere on my phone where there’s a car in the front, there’s a cop car in the back, and there’s probably 150 people in this group coming down Broadway, and all their signs said, ‘Defund the police’ and it’s funny to see how we’re there to protect them as they do this protest. So there’s a kind of an irony to it to some degree. They may have been yelling at the officers, but the officers understand that it’s not personal, they’re yelling at the uniform, they’re yelling at what they believe to be bad cops.
One day a civilian again
You know, I was a civilian before, and at some point, I’ll become a civilian again. And that freedom of speech exists as a right that I have myself. It may be limited in my capacity when I’m acting in a professional manner, but at the end of the day it’s the first and probably one of the most important rights we have in this country.
You’re just there to keep the peace. Really, that’s what it comes down to. Like I said, my personal beliefs are set aside once I put this uniform.
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