Residents raised alarms over a proposed Dunkin’ drive-thru at the corner of Routes 28 and 375 in West Hurley and its impact to traffic, safety, garbage and aesthetics at the gateway to Woodstock and surrounding Catskill Mountain communities. Dozens spoke at the August 30 continuation of the Hurley Planning Board public hearing on the Dunkin,’ formerly known as Dunkin’ Donuts, at the corner where a travel agency and an Allstate insurance office now exist in West Hurley. Plans are for that building to be demolished to make way for the Dunkin’.
Engineers working for the owner-to-be, Southern Realty and Development, believe traffic backups can be mitigated by the fact that the business will be drive-thru only, so parking will be limited to employees and will allow space for 18 cars to queue around the building. Traffic engineer Starke Hipp of Creighton Manning said Dunkin’ locations in Kingston and Saugerties were used as a comparison in determining the queues and their impact on traffic. The Dunkin’ in Kingston has 27,000 vehicles per day pass by it and there was a queue of 14 vehicles, Hipp said. “Again, this site has a stack capacity of 18 vehicles, so there would be a surplus for any queueing in the driveway,” he said.
The applicant’s engineer, Barry Medenbach, said the West Hurley site will have two menu boards instead of the usual one, further mitigating traffic issues. “The delay seems to be at the menu. People get stuck at the menu with the kids in the car or something and holds everything up. And that’s why this facility would have to two menus and that would reduce a lot of that impact,” Medenbach said.
But residents who use the intersection every day aren’t convinced traffic studies tell the whole story. “The lot is too small for this project,” Georganne Chapin said. “Regardless of what the traffic studies show in terms of the volume or number of cars on the road, it is a very, very busy and dangerous intersection already.” Chapin also believes the wrong code for type of business was used in the traffic study, which will have an effect on the results. When the analysis for trip generation data was used, the type “coffee/doughnut shop with drive-thru window” was used when “coffee/doughnut shop with drive-thru window and no indoor seating” would have been more appropriate, she said. “If you have a 900-square-foot facility that has indoor eating, bathrooms open to the public and indoor ordering, obviously, there’s a much lesser volume of food being cranked out and served,” Chapin said. “If you have a drive-thru only, essentially the entire building is the kitchen cranking out food. So that was incorrect and needs to be redone with the correct code.”
Property owner Virginia Barthel, who runs the Booked By Barthel travel agency at the site, said she is just trying to sell the parcel after COVID-19 ravaged her business. “You all understand that I have lost my entire business due to the pandemic. So yes, I am trying to sell the building that I bought six years ago that helped me grow my business,” Barthel said. “And all I’m trying to do is do something that I think the community at the end of the day would appreciate.”
Barthel challenged the concerns a Dunkin’ Donuts would turn an already busy intersection into a traffic nightmare. “I sat in that building for five years. Two big 8-foot plate glass windows. It is not a deathtrap on that corner. I sat there every day, sometimes on Saturdays, sometimes early in the morning, sometimes late at night. Is there traffic? Yes, there is. Is it a death corner? No. I did not see anybody die on my corner in the five years that I sat there,” she said. “The other thing that I would like to point out is that the buyer has done his due diligence. He has created a plan to have enough circulation on the small property so that there shouldn’t be a traffic issue. I understand you may not agree. I understand you may be upset. But I’m asking you to understand that I think the buyer is doing his due diligence and I do hope that the planning board will look at the numbers and not opinions.”
But Jordan Voelker, who runs Limber Tree Service next door echoed the traffic concerns and commented on safety concerns it may pose. “The traffic thing is fascinating, but I’m just envisioning my employees are likely to be customers, and others using this interesting layout. And I can’t help but wonder what happens when somebody comes off and 28 westbound, turns right and has to make a split-second decision about which of those two lanes to get into,” he said.
Gateway to Woodstock
A Woodstock contingency made a strong showing at the hearing to voice their concerns.
“I do believe that opinions are part of the fabric of democracy and what makes new innovations and new possibilities possible, not just numbers. So my reason for opposing this is that that corner, along the iconic highway is the gateway to Woodstock, one of the gems of our whole region. And I don’t want to set the precedent for a business such as Dunkin’ Donuts,” Amy Fradon said. “I agree there’s nothing wrong with Dunkin’ Donuts itself. It’s good coffee and doughnuts. But that’s not what I want this beautiful area to become. And I believe that will set the precedent for McDonald’s down the road and Taco Bell’s down the road and a whole host of fast food.”
Fradon said there are a lot of mom-and-pop businesses along Route 28 and wants to see planning boards encourage more. “What if on that corner, there was a coffee shop that had the character of the Catskills. A drive-thru? All those cars sitting there, idling. What’s the pollution factor for that,” she said. “If I had the money right now, I would give it to you,” she told Barthel
“I would take it,” Barthel answered.
“This planet is going to die from lake of creativity and lack of community vision,” Fradon said.
Woodstock Councilwoman Laura Ricci said the intersection is relatively safe today but is concerned the proposed Dunkin’ will change that. “Today, if you come down 375 and want to make a left-hand turn, you have a traffic light, so it is safe today. So I’m not surprised you haven’t seen an accident. I don’t want to see that change, but you’re doing things that make it a dangerous intersection.” She also echoed the concerns about the impact to the intersection as a gateway to Woodstock. “We are interested in community, not commodity. This is going in the wrong direction. This is commodity and it’s box stores, chains, etc., including a drive-thru.”
Ricci also noted the water at that intersection is a major concern given the history. An Exxon station was at the opposite corner. “It seems to me that there ought to be a lot of focus put on how is the water today. Leaking gas tanks in the past and contaminated water is right across the street,” she said.
Traffic and sight lines are a major factor if customers are going to enter from and exit back onto Route 375 as one option, she noted. “Because no matter how you look at it, if you’re coming down 375…Again, I do it a lot, and you’re coming over a hill,” she said. “And even as it is with no cars in line trying to get into the Dunkin’ facility, even today, you have to be careful when you’re coming over the hill you have to be careful when the light is red. There could be a long line of cars.”
Woodstock Deputy Supervisor Maria-Elena Conte said she agreed with all the points about traffic and safety, but also objected to the corporate aspect of the proposal. “Do you really want to have corporate sponsorship and people come to the Catskills? Welcome to the Catskills, sponsored by Dunkin’ Donuts,’ she said.
Jem Maverick voiced her own concerns about the traffic. “I think it’s insane for so many reasons. But when you’re making the right turn on to 375 which is a continuous green light… Seriously, people come whipping around that corner and are they going to be rear-ending everybody who’s stopping to wait for the traffic to leave the space to get into the drive thru,” she said. “It’s just not feasible. I see this in Woodstock proper by the Village Green where they put huge X’s there not to move forward and to leave room to get around the Village Green,” she said. “Nobody ever pays attention to it.”
Jana Martin is a frequent Dunkin’ customer, but thinks the proposed location is wrong. “I eat Dunkin’ Donuts, I drink their iced coffee. I go to the one in Saugerties. I go to the one in Kingston. Having this on 375 and 28 is going to be nuts. It’s absolutely going to be nuts,” Martin said. “Aside from the completely wrong character of putting a global corporate fast-food franchise on pretty much what is open territory, the way you decide to develop this is going to have a lot to do with the character of Hurley.”
Dunkin’ acceptable use for property, meets zoning
“When reviewing a project like this, the Planning Board has to consider the zoning code compliance and they have to consider general planning, health, safety and welfare of the town,” explained Adriana Beltrani, Hurley’s planning consultant, as she addressed residents’ concerns. “This project does comply with all the zoning regulations in the town, meaning the lot sizes, it complies. The sign regulations are complied with…So what the board is reviewing now are site plan considerations, more discretionary questions of health, safety and welfare.”
The Hurley Building Department reviewed the site plan and said it is permitted in the zoning district and does not require any variances, Beltrani said. At Beltrani’s recommendation, the developer has set up a camera so the town’s designated traffic engineer can look at the feed remotely and observe traffic patterns at certain times and days.
Planning Board member Diana Cline expressed concern any traffic counts taken now will reflect the fact that many businesses are still closed due to COVID. “It’s definitely not what’s going to be the true study. When everything opens up in a year, two years… I’m not sure how we factor that into the study,” Cline said.
The Planning Board will likely continue discussion at its next regular meeting October 4.
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